Converting invasives to natives, worth the squeeze?

[TheBig8]

I've been working for the past few years on some buckthorn control in one of my woodlots. It is gratifying work and I know it needs to be done, it is very labor intensive and costly. In the short term the deer have vacated this portion of the property. Some of that is probably from my intrusion, some from a lack of cover. I dont want to break open the canopy with TSI until I have a better handle of the invasive understory.
Has anyone undergone a wholesale change in their timber like this and had good/great results? I have another property where I'm strongly considering a massive project (with cost share) to control bush honeysuckle, but this property has been a great hunting property and I'm nervous about destroying my "cover".
I want to leave the forest better for future generations than I found it, but ultimately these are strictly hunting properties and I don't want to negatively impact the hunting for years to come. Any feedback appreciated.

 

[newfarmer]

If you want to leave it better- you need to get rid of invasives. Or at least put a large dent in them so that way the woods can regenerate naturally. Just my 2 cents

 

[Snail3496]

Have a similar situation with bush honeysuckle. It is wildly overwhelming and doesn't lay out where a mulcher or machinery of sorts would be an effective play. I also don't like the idea of aerial spraying, and going into your timber in Oct isn't an option, so winter/early spring has been our work period.

We have been doing 5 ish acre pockets by hand, but it seems like when you get to the end, where you started is already getting more.

I really don't mind it on the edges of our larger woodlot. Seems like it seals it up well for the deer from the open fields around. It's all relative. Some isn't bad, but too much can be bad. Luckily we don't really have it in the center 80% of our timber. We are to the point where I think I'll just be keeping it at bay the rest of my life and completely eradicating it isn't possible.

Remember hearing Bill Winke mention lack of invasives as an important requirement for him buying a new property. Really a great take, but not realistic in some parts of the midwest. At least not my area of eastern IL anyway. Most of our hedge thickets and "woods" are pretty much honeysuckle monocultures.

 

[Hawk32]

Have a similar situation with bush honeysuckle. It is wildly overwhelming and doesn't lay out where a mulcher or machinery of sorts would be an effective play. I also don't like the idea of aerial spraying, and going into your timber in Oct isn't an option, so winter/early spring has been our work period.

We have been doing 5 ish acre pockets by hand, but it seems like when you get to the end, where you started is already getting more.

I really don't mind it on the edges of our larger woodlot. Seems like it seals it up well for the deer from the open fields around. It's all relative. Some isn't bad, but too much can be bad. Luckily we don't really have it in the center 80% of our timber. We are to the point where I think I'll just be keeping it at bay the rest of my life and completely eradicating it isn't possible.

Remember hearing Bill Winke mention lack of invasives as an important requirement for him buying a new property. Really a great take, but not realistic in some parts of the midwest. At least not my area of eastern IL anyway. Most of our hedge thickets and "woods" are pretty much honeysuckle monocultures.

Curios as to why not? I have one buddy who is considering it, another that did it last year and said it was a great thing so far. I have only actually seen one area that was sprayed and that was on Core ground and it was an instant mess of briars, stick tights and crap and in 3 years was back to honey suckle.

 

[Bucksnbears]

My woods are polluted with BT and PA.
So much that I've learned to embrace the Suck.

 

[JRadd33]

Curios as to why not? I have one buddy who is considering it, another that did it last year and said it was a great thing so far. I have only actually seen one area that was sprayed and that was on Core ground and it was an instant mess of briars, stick tights and crap and in 3 years was back to honey suckle.

Following. I’m considering aerial spraying MR in clear cut areas but am concerned for young oaks that may be growing in there. It’s so thick though, I need to do something.

 

[Sligh1]

Bush honeysuckle- man- hearing great things on aerial treatment. For how bad it is & how it’s done - very little downside & massive benefits for low cost. The timing of BHS staying green after all else is dormant is so huge an opportunity.

Converting invasive to other better stuff including Tsi… 100% I’d do it. The “what about pressure or work load or coming back later” …. Million ways to slice & dice that… one example… say a guy has “40 acres of timber” (whatever)…. Do 10 acres per year for 4 years. Once it’s killed and Tsi is done…. 10 acres of getting the regrowth is probably 1/10th the work of the initial job. Id call it “a maintenance day”. Spend 1 day per year in that 10 acres hitting the regrowth of nasty stuff. Most the seed bank is gone after 2. Still be some but 2 years is the bulk.
After a couple times/years of maintaining…. It’s tiny bit of time after that- way easier.

The most work by far is step 1: killing it & Tsi. Next round - still some work but way less & way easier. Then- years down road- lil touch up’s… easier yet.
Millions of ways to do this. Just take on what’s manageable but aggressive imo. Doing Tsi & even interseeding/planting…. Tons of options there too so fire back on specifics if doing that.

 

[Bucksnbears]

I've bowhunted Many properties that are full of BT over the years.
Had some great hunts within or edges of it.
I've learned to embrace it somewhat.
Finding a pocket of it with a big tree in/ next to it for a treestand and cutting a few lanes just WORKS. Getting in/ out is kinda tough though.

BT tickets here will almost 100% have a major trail traversing through it.
Knowing I'm by far the minority on where I sit ( LOVE ) getting in thick/ tight n close, BT/ PA tickets are golden.

Dragging them out kinda sucks though. Lol.

 

[Sligh1]

I don’t disagree one bit that all the invasives create thickets. & deer like “thick stuff”. For sure & everyone on here has pry seen invasives that create nasty thick areas. Heck- even natives like cedars or less desirable things like prickly ash. Million forms of “thick stuff” - native & non-native. The ?’s then come: 1) can they get too thick where more damage is done than good? (Bush honeysuckle FOR sure is yes) 2) can they reproduce & get out of control & take over native vegetation? 3) is nutrition, browse, bedding ideal?
& 100% I would say “don’t just tear your thick (bad stuff) out & leave it wide open!!!!…. Do Tsi or put other stuff in there so it’s a thicket but a far more beneficial thicket.
Kinda like my cedar project…. I frigin love cedars. But they were 5x thicker than should have been & deer use went from “great” to “can’t use it at all”. Thinned em down & will keep em thinned but I’ll also add some other shrubs & trees … or maybe a bit of natives or forbs to diversify it. It’ll still be thick but not too thick.
One other huge thing (of big list) …Forest browse MUST be a component for deer. U want TONS of it. With bad BHS or anything that takes over & out of control…. You will lose all nutrition in those areas too.
We all want thick + ideal…. Million ways to get there & accomplish both at same time.

 

[JRadd33]

Bush honeysuckle- man- hearing great things on aerial treatment. For how bad it is & how it’s done - very little downside & massive benefits for low cost. The timing of BHS staying green after all else is dormant is so huge an opportunity.

Converting invasive to other better stuff including Tsi… 100% I’d do it. The “what about pressure or work load or coming back later” …. Million ways to slice & dice that… one example… say a guy has “40 acres of timber” (whatever)…. Do 10 acres per year for 4 years. Once it’s killed and Tsi is done…. 10 acres of getting the regrowth is probably 1/10th the work of the initial job. Id call it “a maintenance day”. Spend 1 day per year in that 10 acres hitting the regrowth of nasty stuff. Most the seed bank is gone after 2. Still be some but 2 years is the bulk.
After a couple times/years of maintaining…. It’s tiny bit of time after that- way easier.

The most work by far is step 1: killing it & Tsi. Next round - still some work but way less & way easier. Then- years down road- lil touch up’s… easier yet.
Millions of ways to do this. Just take on what’s manageable but aggressive imo. Doing Tsi & even interseeding/planting…. Tons of options there too so fire back on specifics if doing that.

Skip, do I cut my losses and take a chance on damaging young trees? We logged 5 years ago. Several hundred oaks and walnut. Also, is it a good time of year to spray. Really easy to see it right now. Southern Illinois.

 

[BearCreek]

It's worth the squeeze for me. I battle reed canary grass in my bottoms and bush honeysuckle/multi flora rose on my high ground. I'm getting rid of invasives and other undesirables regardless of the short term impact on deer hunting. The benefit to other species makes it worthwhile to me. I've started utilizing aerial drone spraying in my bottoms for the RCG and that seems to be working. My favorite method for BH elimination is cutting in dormant season and wiping stumps with gly. I prefer this method because I know which ones are dead (as opposed to spraying the foliage and leaving it standing). This also works on MFR. I use this combination and it works on pretty much any size stem. The ability to cut, paint, and move to the next is key with this setup. You can also use the head of the saw to push the vegetation away from the stump. This was my first season using it and I will likely make improvements. It is a little heavy.

 

[Snail3496]

Finding a pocket of it with a big tree in/ next to it for a treestand and cutting a few lanes just WORKS

yes sir! And any trail or opening you cut, they will use heavy!

 

[Snail3496]

Curios as to why not? I have one buddy who is considering it, another that did it last year and said it was a great thing so far. I have only actually seen one area that was sprayed and that was on Core ground and it was an instant mess of briars, stick tights and crap and in 3 years was back to honey suckle.

I am not a hippie but just napalm spraying my only timber and all of the critters inside of it in Oct/Nov just seems weird to me.

 

[Jwest]

Curios as to why not? I have one buddy who is considering it, another that did it last year and said it was a great thing so far. I have only actually seen one area that was sprayed and that was on Core ground and it was an instant mess of briars, stick tights and crap and in 3 years was back to honey suckle.

Most likely follow up applications were not followed up on those areas for whatever reason (fire/additional chemical applications). What area you referring to? I am also in the area.

I would only do aerial applications if the timber understory is solid honeysuckle. After the initial spraying, you are going to have to go in and spot spray the young ones that were protected by the canopy of the bigger ones when it was aerial sprayed. If not, you’re just going to have a mess again in a few years.

Just depends what your understory consists of. I know I had coralberry aka buck brush as well as other natives that were still green when everyone was doing aerial applications last fall. Coralberry can often be mistaken as honeysuckle. Oaks in tree tubes were still green. Have to be careful for sure.

I prefer cut stump method as stated above but super time consuming and labor intensive but have seen awesome results combined with fire and follow up spot spraying. You really have to keep after it for 3-4 years I would say.

Stumpstopper.com
Wish I could have gotten one of these, but have been out of stock for a while and no response to my emails.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sligh1]

Skip, do I cut my losses and take a chance on damaging young trees? We logged 5 years ago. Several hundred oaks and walnut. Also, is it a good time of year to spray. Really easy to see it right now. Southern Illinois.

How many acres u dealing with? I got a vail saw that sprays herbicide after the cut. I can get around without messing trees up and that’s over the top for what folks pry need. Chainsaw & backpack sprayer also works. Or even foliar spray. Like how many acres and how many invasives would u guess are there per acre? Type & size good to know as well.

 

[Bucksnbears]

Time n budget does not allow to remove the BT I have growing.
I'm kinda abnormal in my thinking about wildlife habitat. I realise what i see and not what others want me to see. Have read for years of the importance of eliminating it. however, some of my biggest bucks and friends bucks have been killed in or around those thickets.
Most disregard BoxElder. Most of my best areas (and I have ALOT) are full of it. Browse is great but where I'm at, BoxElder and Buckthorn filled riverbottoms are deer magnets. Maybe not for the " browse" aspect but for the cover aspect.
Years ago, when party ( drives) were the most common method of killing deer, there were big areas that were left untouched due to BT tickets. Few would enter them. Guess where the VERY BEST late season bowhunting centered around?
It may be invasive but..., I'm learning to embrace it.
My take.

 

[JRadd33]

How many acres u dealing with? I got a vail saw that sprays herbicide after the cut. I can get around without messing trees up and that’s over the top for what folks pry need. Chainsaw & backpack sprayer also works. Or even foliar spray. Like how many acres and how many invasives would u guess are there per acre? Type & size good to know as well.

Hard to say. 60 acres total. I’d say 30-35 acres are showing MR and AO but most still manageable. I’d also say about 10 acres scattered are heavy. One area being 5 acres that is too thick to get through. And, it seems to be always wet so I can’t get skid steer in it for fear of burying it. Like most people, time is hard to come by.

 

[Sligh1]

Hard to say. 60 acres total. I’d say 30-35 acres are showing MR and AO but most still manageable. I’d also say about 10 acres scattered are heavy. One area being 5 acres that is too thick to get through. And, it seems to be always wet so I can’t get skid steer in it for fear of burying it. Like most people, time is hard to come by.

MFR doesnt concern me near as bad as bush honeysuckle. So if you don’t have that - very good news. Heck, I like Autum olive better than BHS.
If it were mine…. I’d go in and spray the bases of the multiflora rose … I think last time I did that I used diesel or an oil & garlon. Read label. I personally will just thin the worst areas of it. It does come out super easy with skid steer if u ever wanted to. U could foliar spray some too of course.
Autumn olive - several options on that too. It’s soft & cuts easy or look at herbicide labels on several options for which ones, what time & how you do it. Like garlon but I’d have to think back if u need another like tordon or a few other options (several types herbicides in different grazon mixes so check out labels there)
If it were mine… id start by clearling lanes of travel for self & deer so I can get around easily to different parts to keep going. And so deer can get through the nastiest areas. I’d see how u like cutting & treating. Or foliar spray. Or spraying the bases. Or maybe with MFR it’s burning & then some spray. Could be back pack sprayer. Gazillion ways to do it. Get after your worst area and play around until u got your preferred method. There really is like 5++ different options & ways do this and with your amount of acres…. Trying them all to see what works best for you is the answer IMO.

 

[TheBig8]

For those who have drone sprayed BH, what specific time frame would I be looking at. SW WI would be the location, so basically same zone as NE Iowa, right across the river.
I'm aware it would be in the fall, and from personal observations, I'd guess the first week of November, but I don't want to be too late with it.

 

[northcedar]

What are they adding to the aerial spray to actually kill a forest of large BH? There's no way gly could do that alone.